LARRY KING LIVE
 Warren Jeffs Nabbed Near Las Vegas
 
CNN
August 29, 2006
 
KING: Welcome back. Warren Steed Jeffs, the fugitive leader of a polygamist religious leader is cooling his heels in a Nevada jail tonight. The woman responsible for the federal charges against Jeffs is standing by in St. George, Utah. She'll talk about Warren Jeffs and the marriage he tried to force her into when she was just 16.

But first we go to CNN correspondent Ted Rowlands, just outside the Las Vegas jail where Jeffs is currently cooling his heels tonight. Ted will tell us about the routine traffic stop that turned into the arrest of one of the FBI's ten most wanted. What happened?

TED ROWLANDS, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, a trooper by the name of Eddie Dutchover made a routine traffic stop just north of Las Vegas. He pulled over a Cadillac Escalade. In the back seat was Warren Jeffs. In the front was his brother. And in the way back, in the third row, was one of his wives, Naomi Jeffs. And the trooper says he pulled the car over because it didn't have any plates on it.

But right away he claims that he noticed that both brothers were extremely nervous. He ended up separating the two brothers. One said they were headed to Utah. Warren Jeffs said they were going to Denver, Colorado. At that point he called in reinforcements. They started to search the car. He said at one point Warren Jeffs was in the back seat refusing to talk, eating a salad. But he looked at him and the vein in his neck was pulsating so quickly that he knew the guy was very, very nervous.

He asked him if he needed any help. He wouldn't respond to him. When they started to search the car, they found three wigs, they found cell phones, about $60,000 in cash in the lining of a suitcase. And then they called the FBI, they started to figure out this could be Jeffs when they saw some letters addressed to the prophet Warren Jeffs. They got an initial I.D.

When the FBI came, Jeffs stopped lying. Initially he gave the wrong name, or at least his brother gave them the wrong name. At that point Jeffs gave his name, said it in full, and then according to this state trooper just sort of sighed and put his head down and the jig was up.

They've been searching for him in earnest for the last four or five months, he was put on the FBI's top ten most wanted list earlier this year and the search came to an end last night, Monday, about 9:00. Tonight he's here in the Clark County Detention Center. He will have his first court appearance Thursday morning and be extradited either to Arizona or Utah.

KING: Thanks, Ted -- Ted Rowlands on top of the scene. He'll remain there as this story continues. Now joining us in St. George, Utah is Ruth Stubbs the corroborating witness against Warren Jeffs. How do you feel about this capture?

RUTH STUBBS, WAS WED BY JEFFS TO 32-YEAR-OLD MAN: I think it's wonderful. I'm very happy that you guys -- that everyone finally helped catch him.

KING: Did you think he'd stay out a lot longer?

STUBBS: I thought he would, but I didn't know for sure. I mean, it takes everybody to catch a criminal.

KING: You may have to face him in court. Does that bother you?

STUBBS: No, it doesn't. I don't know. I kind of feel at peace about it, so.

KING: Any surprise at how willingly, apparently he just gave up to the police?

STUBBS: No. I didn't think that there was going to be any guns or shooting or anything like that. I think when he realized he was caught that he said OK, here I am.

KING: How did you come, Ruth, to be chosen to marry a man?

STUBBS: I was asking for another man and they gave me to Rodney Holm.

KING: What do you mean you were asking for another one? How old were you?

STUBBS: I was 16.

KING: And you were already with a man?

STUBBS: I was dating him for awhile, and we wanted to take the next step. So we wanted to get married. He wasn't married to anybody else at the time. He just wanted me.

KING: What was he like?

STUBBS: The other man?

KING: No, Warren.

STUBBS: Oh, he was -- Warren? He was -- he was definitely in control. His father had a stroke. And he wasn't all the way there all the time so he took total control.

KING: You grew up in this -- they call it the fundamentalist LDS church. You don't consider it LDS, though, do you?

STUBBS: No. They call it the FLDS because they're a break off. They claim that the LDS used to live polygamy and then when they quit then they went in hiding and so they call it the fundamentalist now.

KING: How'd you break away?

STUBBS: I ran with my three kids -- well, two kids at the time. And I was pregnant with my third. And I ran to -- my mom helped me drive to Phoenix, to my sister Penny's house.

KING: How are you doing now?

STUBBS: I'm doing really good now.

KING: Do you live in St. George.

STUBBS: I live in Hurricane. It's about 15 miles from St. George.

KING: Are you married?

STUBBS: No, but I have a really good boyfriend.

KING: And just one boyfriend per person, right?

STUBBS: That's right. One boyfriend, one girlfriend per person.

KING: Thanks, Ruth -- Ruth Stubbs. She is -- at age 16 was forced to wed the 32-year-old Rodney Holm. Jeffs performed the ceremony. Holm was convicted of felony bigamy, unlawful sexual pursuit with a minor. Ruth Stubbs will testify if needed against Mr. Jeffs, arrested today. When we come back, John Lewis and Steven Martinez of the FBI. Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What will the Lord do to an immoral people? They shall be destroyed.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is part of a lecture Warren Jeffs gave to a group of young girls in a home economics class.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We live in such a wicked day. The people on this land of America are an adulterous generation. We do not want to be like them. The prophets have declared, I would rather have my sons or daughters in the grave than commit sins of immorality.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Joining us now in Phoenix, Arizona is John W. Lewis, FBI special agent in charge. The Phoenix office initiated a fugitive investigation of Warren Jeffs in June of last year. And in Las Vegas is Steve Martinez, special agent in charge FBI in Las Vegas. He spoke at a press conference today in Salt Lake. Steve, how did this come about?

STEVE MARTINEZ, FBI AGENT IN CHARGE, LAS VEGAS: Well, the Nevada highway patrol did a routine traffic stop last night at about 9:00, had a Cadillac Escalade that had a temporary tag that just didn't look right. The trooper, Mr. Dutchover pulled over the vehicle and basically did his job and did it very, very well.

KING: What were they suspicious of, Steve?

MARTINEZ: Well I think initially it was a traffic stop based on the fact that the temporary tag on the car just wasn't completely visible, at least that's my understanding. And this is something that the highway patrol does routinely as they patrol the highways here in Nevada.

KING: Now, when the FBI -- when the state called the FBI, you got there right away. Were you one of the people that came over?

MARTINEZ: No, I wasn't. Two members of our violent crime and major offenders squad, two special agents, responded immediately when they were called by the Nevada highway patrol, and they were able to confirm that this was indeed Mr. Jeffs.

KING: And he surrendered easily?

MARTINEZ: Yes, he did. It went without incident, and we're very, very pleased that that was the case. We certainly didn't want any violence, and it was without incident.

KING: John W. Lewis, how did the Phoenix office get involved?

JOHN W. LEWIS, FBI AGENT IN CHARGE, PHOENIX: Larry, shortly after Mojave County filed their warrants, we became involved, interacting with them. It was last year, mid '05, about June '05 when we after discussing with them decided to go forward with unlawful flight to avoid prosecution warrant. Essentially that's a tool that allows the FBI throughout the nation to join with a local law enforcement agency and use our resource to search for a fugitive.

KING: You said today that they found materials in the car suggesting that he was -- or calling himself a prophet. What kind of materials?

LEWIS: Steve might be better to answer that, Larry. My understanding is there were a considerable number of envelopes in the car that may have had his name or other written information on them.

KING: Was that, Steve, a bizarre scene?

MARTINEZ: Well, I don't know if I'd call it bizarre, but there was quite a bit of material in the vehicle and as the agents were looking through it, there were some interesting articles that did contain information that looked like they were letters of support perhaps to Mr. Jeffs.

KING: Do you know what he was doing in Las Vegas, Steve?

MARTINEZ: You know, I really don't. And it's not certain that he was in Las Vegas or just transmitting through Las Vegas. But the bottom line is that's where he wound up and it was just a little bit north of the city limits.

KING: From what you know of him, John W. Lewis, a red Escalade? Does that surprise you?

LEWIS: No, not at all, Larry. We've had several reports over the time we've been interested in finding Mr. Jeffs that he travels in cars just like that and other SUVs, in fact.

KING: What made this so tough a chase?

LEWIS: Well, it's a very large country. There's quite a few people in it. If somebody wants to stay hidden particularly when they're protected by a large group of people with whom they associate with regularly, it makes our job a little more difficult. That's why we involve America's Most Wanted. That's why we involve top ten fugitive publicity. That's why the local authorities in this case came to the FBI to take advantage of our 56 field office reach, if you will, throughout the United States.

KING: Steve, he's on the top ten. Is he dangerous?

MARTINEZ: Well, I think the nature of the charges would indicate that he does present a danger to children, and for that reason he did wind up on the list as a top ten fugitive.

KING: Are you going to be -- do you think you'll be hurt by the fact that so many people apparently like and support him, Steve?

MARTINEZ: Well, you know, I really don't want to speculate as to how that might impact on it. I know that he has a right to mount a defense to the charges that have been brought against him. But I do think that the cases will be strong in both jurisdictions, in Utah and in Arizona.

KING: Did he say anything, Steve, to the officers?

MARTINEZ: Aside from finally admitting his identity, he really didn't. There was an attempt to interview him on substantive matters. But he chose not to speak to those matters.

KING: What happens to him now, John?

LEWIS: Well, today there was a hearing over in Las Vegas. And again, Steve might comment on this. I know it was a state hearing. That hearing is in regards to if and when he's going to be removed over here to the state of Arizona or possibly to the state of Utah where there are charges. We have still two federal warrants that have yet to be exercised. At some point the federal authorities are going to have to deal with those as well.

KING: Where does he go, Steve?

MARTINEZ: Well, he'll remain here at the Clark County detention facility until the legal process is such that he would be extradited to either Utah or Arizona. So for the time being he'll be here.

KING: Thank you both very much. Noble work. John W. Lewis, FBI special agent in charge Phoenix. Steve Martinez, FBI special agent in charge Las Vegas. Anderson Cooper will join us at the top of the hour to bring "360" to our attention. Anderson, what's up tonight?

ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Larry, we're of course live from New Orleans on Katrina's anniversary. It has been a day for people here to remember. A difficult day indeed, remembering the storm and also to never forget the failures that cost so many so much. We're keeping them honest.

Tonight we'll look at why one year on there is still no one single plan from the top down to rebuild. It is simply mind-boggling. We're also following the story that you are covering right now, the capture of fugitive polygamist leader Warren Jeffs. We're going to take you inside his fundamentalist sect, show you what they practice, how they practice, and how he's been getting away with this for so many years. We have reports from several of the polygamist compounds scattered throughout the United States. That, Larry, all at the top of the hour.

KING: Thanks, Anderson. Anderson Cooper in New Orleans on this historic day. That's "ANDERSON COOPER 360" at the top of the hour and we'll be right back. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: On this day after the capture of Warren Jeffs joining us in Salt Lake City is Greg Hoole, the attorney for Brent Jeffs, the nephew of Warren Jeffs. Brent has filed suit against his uncle, accusing him of sexually abusing him. And in Mesa, Arizona is Pennie Peterson. She fled her family and the FLDS at age 14 after learning she was about to be forced into a polygamous marriage. Her father had multiple wives, and she has 38 brothers and sisters, including Ruth Stubbs. Ruth will be back with us in the last segment. Greg, what's the suit all about?

GREG HOOLE, ATTORNEY FOR BRENT JEFFS: Brent's suit is about allegations that Warren Jeffs while principal at the Alta Academy sexually molested Brent when he was approximately five or six-years- old and a student at the academy. The offenses actually occurred on Sunday. The school building was also used as a church. And families who were -- the Jeffs family in particular was sent down and divided from the others. And the children were put in a room where Warren would eventually come down and take Brent by the hand, lead him to a bathroom down the hall and sexually molest him.

KING: Is Brent the son of Warren's brother or sister?

HOOLE: He is. He's Warren's nephew. The son of Warren's brother from a different mother, but nonetheless Warren's nephew.

KING: So when Warren Jeffs preaches morality, even if he may deem polygamy as moral, the rest of it is baloney, right?

HOOLE: That's exactly right. In fact, Brent's case and the lost boys case, another group of young men that we represent against Warren Jeffs and the FLDS church has nothing to do with polygamy. It has to do with a fanatical religious leader who's abusing children and destroying families.

KING: Pennie, do you know Warren?

PENNIE PETERSEN, FLED FDLS: I don't know him personally, no.

KING: But you lived in a polygamous setting until -- you ran away at 14, right?

PETERSEN: Yes, I did. I know of Warren. I know that, you know, he's married off my sister and different things that he's done. And I think it's ironic that he's driving around a red Cadillac when red is against our religion.

KING: Red is against your religion?

PETERSEN: Against their religion, yes. You're not supposed to wear red or have red vehicles. And it's pretty funny that he's driving a Cadillac that's red.

KING: How did you get away?

PETERSEN: I ran away at the age of 14 in the middle of the night. I was to be married off the next morning to not a very good man.

KING: You grew up in that polygamous setting, though. What was it like for a young kid kid? PETERSEN: Well, there's always the need for more food and new shoes and clothes and never enough. A lack of attention. A lot of sexual abuse.

KING: Did you have services every Sunday?

PETERSEN: Yes. Every Sunday and on Wednesdays there's home evening. So you have services quite often.

KING: Did you feel you were a Mormon?

PETERSEN: Pardon me?

KING: Did you feel you were a Mormon?

PETERSEN: Did I feel I was a Mormon? No. I felt that I was -- no. Because the Mormons, the polygamists don't like the Mormons. They think that the Mormons gave in to the state. So we actually were taught to hate the Mormons because they didn't hold up to the agreement of God.

KING: Are you now a Mormon?

PETERSEN: No, I am not.

KING: We'll take a break. Greg Hoole will return. So will Pennie Petersen. So will her sister, Ruth Stubbs. Don't go away.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): In Colorado City, Arizona the American flag flies. But most of the citizens pledge allegiance to Warren Jeffs.

(on camera): What do you think of the man?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think he's awesome.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): In this town of about 9,000 where Warren Jeffs lived in this house before he went underground, some coaxing did result in some comments.

(on camera): What do you think of him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a great prophet. And you're damn fools for bothering him. Because your ass is going to get hung one of these days when you look up from hell and look at him in the face.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: Greg Hoole remains with us from Salt Lake City. Pennie Petersen is in Mesa, Arizona. And returning is Ruth Stubbs, in St. George, Utah. Her husband, who Mr. Jeffs married -- married her and her husband, was convicted of felony bigamy. Do you ever get to see him at all, Ruth?

STUBBS: He chooses not to come around very often. Since his trial in Kingman is coming up, he's been stopping by and seeing the kids, probably seen them about five times in the last two months.

KING: Is it hard for you to be around him?

STUBBS: Probably the last time he stopped by was a month. And no, I just -- I'm a smartaleck like I was before I married him, and it kind of shocks him because he thought he got all that out of me.

KING: Well, your sister, Pennie, is here. Is she a smartalec, Pennie?

PETERSEN: Yes, she is. And she's awesome. She's a strong girl. I'm very proud of her.

KING: Greg, what do you make of Mr. Jeffs?

HOOLE: Well, we're glad that he's captured and not just that he's captured, but that he was captured without the loss of any life our clients feared from the beginning that bringing him to justice could result in the loss of life, loss of innocent life, and he's not worth the loss of anyone's life.

We worried that if credible information revealed that he was holed up in the Texas compound, for example, what would authorities do? Would they call out the tanks?

So we're just very grateful that he was brought to justice in the way that he did. And we credit law enforcement in Mojave County, Matt Smith and Brock Belnap up in Washington County and Gary Engels and the other members of law enforcement and the FBI who were able to build a case against him and bring him to justice.

KING: With what we learned tonight about the color red, does that make him in your opinion, Greg, a phony?

HOOLE: Warren always says one thing and does another. For example, previously he's told people to answer them nothing with regard to where he is, and that sort of thing. It will be interesting to see now that he's captured whether he has a new prophecy, a new revelation where he's supposed to talk and defend himself.

Up until now, he's let other people take the fall for him. And this wouldn't be the first time where he said one thing and done another.

KING: Pennie, can he get a fair trial in Utah?

PETERSEN: I don't know. I don't think we got a fair trial with Rodney's case. I think Rodney should have got a lot more than he did.

I hope we can. I hope this -- I don't know. It's hard for me to say yes after what happened with Rodney. He got a year nights for sleeping with a 16-year-old girl. So what's fair?

KING: What about in Arizona?

PETERSEN: Arizona we just had a guy convicted and he got four months. So -- or 40 days.

So I don't know. It's hard for me to say. It's almost like they're saying it's okay to sleep with underage girls, you know. I don't know. I plead with the judges that they do the right thing on this. And I want him to get the maximum. He deserves the maximum.

KING: Ruth, do you think there's a lot of hidden support for him?

STUBBS: What do you mean by hidden?

KING: I mean there's a lot of people who may say one thing but deep down kind of like him or support him or still support polygamy.

STUBBS: Yes, there is. That community's never going to break. They're going to live it forever, because that's what they've been taught forever.

KING: Yes.

I thank you all very much. Greg Hoole, the attorney for Brent Jeffs, the nephew of Warren Jeffs, he is filing suit against his uncle, accusing him of sexual abuse.

Pennie Petersen who fled the FLDS at age 14, and Ruth Stubbs, a cooperating witness against Warren Jeffs. Warren Jeffs married her and her husband. Her husband convicted of felony bigamy.

Before we go, Senator John McCain turns 70 today. We wish a happy birthday to a remarkable man, a war hero a once and maybe future presidential candidate and a great friend to this program. Best wishes, senator John McCain.

Tomorrow night, we put our wraps on JonBenet Ramsey matter -- for awhile at least. Michael Tracey, the professor of journalism returns to discuss the e-mails that he had with the former suspect.

And Lin Wood, the famed attorney for the Ramseys.

Right now, to New Orleans, Anderson Cooper and "AC 360." -- Anderson.
 
CNN.com
Originally broadcast August 29, 2006
 
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