Preaching Polygamy; The Insider; Jeffs on the Run; Inside Secrets

ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES CNN

ANNOUNCER: Across the country and around the world, this is ANDERSON COOPER 360. Live from the CNN broadcast center in New York, here's Anderson Cooper. ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: Well, thanks for joining us in this 11:00 o'clock edition of 360. We're focusing tonight on Warren Jeffs. To the FBI, Warren Jeffs is a criminal, the newest name on its 10 most wanted fugitives list. Among the criminal charges he is facing is engaging in sex with a minor. But to Jeffs' followers -- and there are thousands of them -- and you're seeing pictures of some of them right now -- he's not a criminal, he's a prophet whose word is absolute. You're about to hear something extremely rare, Warren Jeffs, in his own words, caught on tape. Here's CNN's Randi Kaye. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) RANDI KAYE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): His followers, an estimated 10,000 people, believe he is their prophet. To the FBI, he's one of their top 10 criminals. The prophet, Warren Jeffs, is considered one of the most sinister polygamists of his time, a coldhearted, abusive leader, the head of a secret society where men have dozens of wives and small armies of children, where women as young as 13 are forced to marry and start families. Listen to how the fugitive prophet speaks to first-time brides. This is a rare audio recording of his teachings recorded by a disgruntled member and obtained by "KSL Radio." WARREN JEFFS, POLYGAMIST LEADER: Many young men, when they receive their first wife, they're just so untrained. And the woman, if she's not careful, will be overbearing and always ask permission for what she wants. And ladies, build up your husband by being submissive. That's how you will give your children the success. You will want your children to be obedient and submissive to righteous living. KAYE: In Jeffs' fundamentalist world, men are kings. JEFFS: Dear wives, realizing happiness is only being a part and a strength to your husband. Get close to him. Confide in him. Don't let your former family be your total confidence. It should be your new husband. Turn to him with a full heart and give him the opportunity to lead you right. KAYE: For the documentary, "Colorado City and the Underground Railroad," Filmmaker Michael Watkiss visited the Colorado city compound dozens of times. MICHAEL WATKISS, FILMMAKER: He has this sort of preacher-like nice deep voice, and this sort of -- or this numbing sort of presentation. But it's just this over and over sort of rout communication to these young people. This is what you do. And everything else is sinful. The little girls, from the moment they're born, are deprived of any meaningful education, any sort of opportunities or outlook for opportunities. They are told that their one and only role in life is to be the obedient wife of a polygamist man. KAYE: And like most cults, there is an us versus them mentality. Jeffs controls his followers by steering them away from the outside, what he calls a wicked and immoral world. JEFFS: You see some classes of the human family that are black, uncouth, or rude and filthy, uncomely, disagreeable, and low in their habits, wild and seemingly deprived of nearly all of the blessings of the intelligence that is generally bestowed upon mankind. KAYE: Watkiss says Jeffs, and his father before him, controls the followers from cradle to grave. WATKISS: You see this guy preaching this doctrine of complete obedience. And letting the young women know that their only role in life is to do what he says. And he clearly is sort of a Svengali, charismatic figure. People disparage him, you know, and -- but the bottom line is, I think the guy has a lot of power and needs to be taken very seriously. And I listen to these sermons, and they scare me. KAYE: Watkiss says it's no coincidence the compound is one of the most isolated areas of the country, chosen, he says, for that very reason. WATKISS: They went there very intentionally because they have long understood that the light of day is not their friend. If they're going to practice this stuff, they need to be in secret and in hiding. KAYE: Watkiss calls the emphasis on selecting wives and baby making assembly-line polygamy with no end in sight. Even with Jeffs on the run, he says, the faithful remain behind him. Randi Kaye, CNN, New York. (END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: And with us again tonight is Brent Jeffs, the nephew of Warren Jeffs. Brent, just hearing your uncle's voice, that's got to be hard for you? BRENT JEFFS, NEPHEW OF WARREN JEFFS: It is very hard for me. It brings back so many memories over all the years. It kind of makes me just shake inside, you know. It's such an eerie voice. I just -- it's hard to hear. COOPER: When you were in and you believed, did you believe everything he said? I mean, did it all make sense? Did it all seem that this was the word of God? B. JEFFS: To a point. You know, growing up in it, you just -- your whole family's in it. You're surrounded by it, 24/7. And, you know, little things start happening. And that makes you question. You start questioning the religion and what it's all about. And that's pretty much how it went for me. Later on in my, you know, teenage years, that's when I started questioning everything. COOPER: And, I mean, your dad had three wives. What was it like growing up in a polygamist family? B. JEFFS: In our family, it was really actually pretty good. But it was difficult at times, too, with the three moms and all of us kids, not getting along, you know. A lot of, you know, a lot of kids to worry about and stuff like that. Fun times but hard times, too. COOPER: And getting out and, you know finding yourself in another city and suddenly you're surrounded by this life that you -- I don't know how much you even knew about this, you know, this life that most of us are living. What was that like, adjusting to that? B. JEFFS: That was like, for me, to move into another country, pretty much. Because everything that I was taught, I had to forget, and start over, pretty much. And try and adapt to this whole new world that was around me. And so I'm thankful that I had my brothers to live with to help me through, you know, all that. COOPER: And your family now, I mean, your dad, is he still involved in the religion? B. JEFFS: Absolutely not. He left pretty much right after I did, along with most of us kids. And so, you know, he's very happy right now. We're just like a good normal, happy family. COOPER: And when you see those pictures -- I mean, I find it extraordinary, looking at those pictures of, you know, the women in the long dresses and the men in suits and people just kind of walking around, a lot of them turn their backs on the camera when they see the camera. When you see all those people, you know, walking, what do you think? I mean, can you describe what their lives are like? B. JEFFS: I think back to how it was for me. You know, going anywhere, to the grocery store with my mom or anything, not allowed to talk to anybody, not allowed to look at anybody. You just -- you feel so controlled. You feel like a zombie walking around. And you always had that little question in your head, or thought about, what is it like on their side, you know? COOPER: And did you have much sense of people outside? I mean, of what life was like outside? I mean, you went to an FLDS school. Were you taught about life outside? B. JEFFS: Absolutely not. They purposely did not teach about that because they did not want people's minds to wander and want to leave. COOPER: And so, I mean, that first step, I mean, did you grow up believing that men should automatically take -- what is the idea of men taking more than one wife? I mean, why is -- what's the idea behind it? B. JEFFS: The whole idea of having plural wives earns you the highest degree in the celestial kingdom, is what they call it in the Mormon religion, the highest degree to live on. And so by having more than one wife, you are there. You're going to go there. COOPER: We heard earlier about what they're calling the "Lost Boys". Are these boys pushed out? B. JEFFS: Yes. Their dads are pushing them right out of the religion, and the poor boys don't even know where to turn. So it's really difficult to see them. And so I'm really happy and glad to be a part of that, to help them, you know, help them find themselves and help them along the way. COOPER: Why is it so important to you that Warren Jeffs gets apprehended? B. JEFFS: Because of what he has done to me and done to thousands of other people in that religion, destroyed their lives, tearing apart their families, you know, kicking these "Lost Boys" out. He needs to be stopped. And this is a great way to do it. I'm really thankful to be on the show. COOPER: Well, Brent Jeffs, I can't imagine what you've been through and I appreciate you talking about it, and good luck to you, and I hope to talk again. B. JEFFS: Thank you. COOPER: All right. For Warren Jeffs, the days of being a polygamist on the run may soon be over. Here's the raw data. Jeffs is now on the FBI's most wanted list. Since it began in 1950, there have been 482 people on that list, 452 of them have been caught. That's a 94 percent arrest record. On average, it takes 331 days to track down a most-wanted fugitive, though it took feds just two hours to catch Billy Austin Bryant n 1969. Devious and resourceful -- just two of the words that Arizona's Attorney General Terry Goddard uses to describe Warren Jeffs. He's been on the run for years now. He's -- now he's got a headline status the FBI's list. We'll look at just how close the cops and the feds are to catching him. COOPER: Well, it's not just the feds who are searching for Polygamist Leader Warren Jeffs. The law enforcement agents of a handful of states are also hunting after him. Finding him, however, may not be so easy. Our CNN's Gary Tuchman spoke to Arizona's Attorney General Terry Goddard. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: How close are you and the other authorities in Arizona and Utah and the feds to catching Warren Jeffs? TERRY GODDARD, ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL: That's real hard to say. I think from here, from the Utah/Arizona side, we've certainly tightened the knot. We've made it much more difficult for him to go in and out of this community with impunity. I'm not saying impossible because he is incredibly, (a) devious, (b) has great resources and (c) has the incredible following, loyalty of his followers. So, we're not going to completely cut off his access, but we have cut off his access to an awful lot of the -- what should I say -- civilian resources that he used to control. TUCHMAN: He's on the same list as Osama bin Laden, 10 most wanted list. I mean, do you think he'll be as hard to catch as Osama bin Laden? GODDARD: Well, first, I don't think there's any comparison in terms of their crimes. But I wish you had that sort of the one most wanted list, and had Osama on it; and then you had the other nine. But he's going to be hard to catch. He has been hard to catch. It's going to take a concerted national effort. They're going to need to watch all his different areas of influence, and eventually he's got to be seen coming and going. I'm very confident of that. (END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: Well, it's hard to get into these communities, and we're trying to sort of go at it from as many different angles as possible. You just heard from the attorney general in Arizona. The shadowy world of Warren Jeffs' community is also the focus of a book, "Under the Banner of Heaven," a fascinating book by Author Jon Krakauer. And it really takes readers deep inside the sect in a way that other writers haven't. He says he found plenty of dark secrets in the book. We spoke earlier. (BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: You've described him as evil. What, in particular, about him? JON KRAKAUER, AUTHOR, "UNDER THE BANNER OF HEAVEN": Just about everything. I mean, he -- if he were in a larger arena, he has the kind of pathology that would put him on a par with Joseph Stalin or Saddam Hussein. I mean, he's that kind of -- he has those kind of instincts. And he's done -- he's damaged thousands of lives. I mean, he's a sexual predator. He's raped and sodomized many, many children, girls, women, and he's created this culture that is damaging in its own right. He's ripped apart families. He's ripped off the federal government for millions of dollars through welfare fraud and other means. He is a bad guy in countless ways. COOPER: It's, I mean, it's almost impossible to believe that in this day and age, someone like this guy can control -- I mean thousands -- we're talking about thousands of people here, and that these people, I mean, they don't watch television, they don't listen to radios, that they can allow themselves to live under this guy's rule, in the United States. I mean, it's crazy. KRAKAUER: It is astonishing. I mean, when I first came upon this group, I was amazed that, you know, thousands of these people are living in the modern age. You go into their town, their main town, Colorado City, and it's like the twilight zone. On the surface, it looks sort of normal. But everyone answers to the prophet. To the cops, they don't obey the laws of the state if they conflict with the laws of Warren Jeffs' decrees. They obey Warren. COOPER: I guess he's got bodyguards from what you've written about. Where do you think he's hiding and how hard is it going to be for the FBI to actually get him? KRAKAUER: Without question, he's in Texas. He recently bought 1,700 acres in west Texas in the middle of nowhere, outside a small town called El Dorado, and he's been systematically building a city there. He's built this immense temple, towering 100 feet over the scrub. And he's there. He's probably been there almost constantly since last October. He may have left occasionally. There's rumors that put him back in Colorado City, but basically he's there. And everyone knows that. The problem is how to arrest him. And without provoking some calamity that would dwarf the calamity of Waco or even Jonestown. That's the challenge. COOPER: You think he's capable of something like that? KRAKAUER: Oh, there's no doubt. If he is cornered, if he has no other way out, there's little doubt -- there's no doubt that he would kill himself and take as many people with him as he could before he'd submit to the law. He's never going to go to jail. He's said as much. He said he will never submit to the laws of the United States. COOPER: And as soon as somebody decides, for whatever reason, to leave, I mean, they are not just ex-communicated, they are cut off entirely from their family members? KRAKAUER: Right, and actually, few people decide to leave. Most people are kicked out by Warren for all kinds of reasons, largely to maintain this culture of fear. He's very good. He has this knack that the best, most famous tyrants have of using fear and intimidation. His favorite tactic is, if you're an important -- you know, if you're a male in the society and you do something that he doesn't like, he will take your many wives and many more children from you. They will be immediately married to other men. They will end up in that man's bed, and you will be cast out. COOPER: Well, as I said, it's incredible to think that this is happening in this day and age and these people are out here in the United States, thousands of people. You've written about it. John Krakauer, thanks for joining us. KRAKAUER: My pleasure. (END VIDEOTAPE) COOPER: For tomorrow night's show, I'll be in Salt Lake City, Utah, for a special edition of 360. We'll look deeper into the secret world of Warren Jeffs' sect. "LARRY KING" is next. His guest, Judge Judy speaks out on some of the major legal cases in the news. And we'll be in Utah tomorrow, for more on the hunt for Warren Jeffs. See you tomorrow. Good night.

CNN.com Originally broadcast May 9, 2006

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