Soldier Accused of Killing Pregnant Marine Captured; Secrets of Warren Jeffs' Polygamist Kingdom
 
ANDERSON COOPER 360 DEGREES
CNN
 
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Up next, though, we have got new secrets revealed about Warren Jeffs' polygamist kingdom, new insights into how authorities gathered evidence at his compound in Texas.

Also tonight: hiding in plain sight. He's suspect number one in the polygamy raid. So, why is he not under arrest yet?

And, then, later, one on one with General Petraeus -- CNN's Michael Ware with the questions that the top U.S. commander in Iraq wasn't asked on Capitol Hill.

We have got that and a lot more -- tonight on 360.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How old were you when you got married?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sixteen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sixteen years old. How old were you when you became pregnant with your first child?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sixteen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 16. And this was an arranged marriage by the religious leaders of that town?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: Her childhood and innocence stolen by men who believe God's will is to have multiple wives. That interview was from reporter Mike Watkiss' documentary on polygamy. The words you just heard sound similar to the allegations emerging from the Yearning For Zion ranch in Texas. There is a stunning new revelation that local police had a confidential informant who was once a member of Jeffs' church and the tips were being fed to the sheriff for years.

Why, then, did it take so long to remove the hundreds of children?

But, first, a message from a true believer. Since this ordeal started last week, people still inside the compound have stayed silent, until now.

Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Would you guys -- would you mind speaking just on camera just for two seconds, in terms of how you guys feel about what is going on in there, any comments, in terms -- you know, we just need a comment from your side. I mean, do you have any...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All we're getting is law enforcement's side. We're not hearing anything from you all. I mean, how do you all feel about this?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's all one-sided coverage. So, I mean, how do you guys feel about what's -- how do you guys inside about what's going on out there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm sorry. What?

How do you -- I mean, how do you feel about what's going on in there? Can you tell us? Any comment from inside at all?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I couldn't hear you before. What did you say, sir?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Any comment at all, I mean, inside, or can you tell us what's going on in there, how you guys are feeling?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We always believe (INAUDIBLE) a free land. That's all my comments.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Who all is left in there? Are a lot of people still left in there? Or, I mean...

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No family, just men.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just men are left inside the compound?

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How many men do you think are left inside there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not sure.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Twenty, 30?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm not sure.

I'm going to ask you guys to please stay off our property.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sure.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The property ends right back there.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... truck coming in.

(CROSSTALK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you. Thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BROWN: We have got a lot of new information to tell you about tonight.

Let's get the latest now from CNN's David Mattingly -- David.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DAVID MATTINGLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): They had an informer, knew the leaders, knew of the polygamy, and had their suspicions. But, for four long years, when it came to investigating any physical or sexual abuse of children, Texas authorities say, their hands were tied.

DAVID DORAN, SCHLEICHER COUNTY, TEXAS, SHERIFF: We did not have evidence of that crime until we got this first outcry.

Now, we are aware that that is a problem amongst the community. We have heard about that in other states. We met with law enforcement in other jurisdictions. And, yes, we -- we're aware that this group is capable of it. But, there again, this is the United States. We are going to respect them. We're not going to violate their civil rights until we get an outcry, a complaint, and I have said that from day one.

MATTINGLY: Sheriff David Doran says he had an excellent dialogue with members of the polygamist sect, but, when authorities raided the temple, they found beds where adult males allegedly engage in sexual activity with female children under the age of 17. They found teenaged wives and mothers married to middle-aged men.

They found records showing one man who was married to 20 women.

(on camera): Prior to the raid, the sheriff says he had been down this dusty road to the ranch visiting several times over the last four years, but never did he see a single teenage girl who appeared pregnant or one with children. He suggests that they were deliberately being kept out of sight. And it's a deception that continued as the raid was going on.

The children were being shuttled from house to house to hide them, as authorities conducted their searches of the buildings.

(voice-over): Authorities asked a compound leader how many people lived there. They were told only around 250 men, women and children, fewer than half the actual number. The state found 416 children. A dozen had chicken pox. A state doctor says it appears none of the children had been vaccinated. One hundred and thirty-nine women left with the children. Authorities say they found only 65 to 70 men.

Many of those men tried to stand in the way and refused to unlock the temple doors.

CAPTAIN BARRY CAVER, TEXAS RANGERS: They opted not to do that. They felt like that, if they did that, that they would be aiding or assisting us in the desecration of their worship place.

MATTINGLY: Some of the men sobbed and prayed when the doors were smashed open.

After six days of searching, authorities have left the ranch and say only about 50 men and women are still there. Attorneys for the compound have no comment, saying they will do their talking in court. Residents are now free to come and go, wondering what will happen next.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BROWN: David is with us live now.

And, David, talk to us a little bit more about this informant, what we know, whether he was living inside the compound.

MATTINGLY: We asked authorities that.

The sheriff here says that he's had contact with this informant, that this informant is only -- will only be described as a former FLDS person. He does not say whether or not that person actually -- this informer actually lived here at this ranch, ever lived here at this ranch, and would not give any clue as to where or who this person might have been.

But he was clear saying that this informer has been in touch with him, has given him good information over the last four years, but no information that would allow them to build a case and go out and get a search warrant to actually go in and investigate cases.

That's not -- that's the missing piece that they had, until this girl called in, claiming that she had been sexually and physically abused by her husband.

BROWN: All right, David Mattingly for us tonight -- David, as always, thank you.

Police are defending their actions in waiting until now to bring charges against the polygamist church and to get the 416 children. Given that officials saw pregnant teenagers and had a confidential informant working for them, why did authorities wait this long before raiding the compound? And if polygamy and statutory rape are crimes, why have no charges been filed?

Well, joining us again, CNN senior legal Jeffrey Toobin.

Jeff, so, Texas authorities had an informant for four years. I mean, we're talking about abuse of children here. And a lot of people are wondering now why on earth they didn't make a move sooner. Could there hands really have been tied, as they have been saying?

TOOBIN: It's very hard to know what they should have done without knowing specifically what the informant said.

But, oftentimes, judges will not give an arrest warrant or will not authorize a search warrant solely on the word of an informant. They need corroboration. Plus, I think the -- the logistical difficulties of proving this case could be very difficult.

Just for example, who are these young women, these girls? Where are their birth certificates? How old really are they? And, you know, it is a crime to marry two people at the same time, but it seems like they did not have formal marriage ceremonies. What they called wives or what they called marriage was not a legal marriage. So, having more than one might not actually be bigamy. So, the -- the logistical obstacles to this prosecution are probably considerable.

BROWN: You know, it seems outrageous that they had to wait until a 16-year-old mother called to say that she was being beaten. And you wonder, how much evidence do you really need before they can go in and what defines -- if they're saying that they can't determine the age of these young women or whether or not they're really married, I mean, it's pretty clear that there -- that there were children that were in an abusive situation and young women who were pregnant, 16 or younger, right?

TOOBIN: Well, again, pretty clear is not -- is not good enough. They have to have specific evidence.

But I do think it's significant that the first thing the authorities did when they moved in was remove all the children, an enormous undertaking, removing 400 children. They did that before they filed charges against anybody, because the most important thing to do in a circumstance like this is take care of the kids.

You know, do I know whether the cops acted the right way? Absolutely not. I can't say that they -- that they should have acted earlier. But I think it's just important to recognize how hard these cases are to bring. These -- these communities have existed in Arizona, in Utah, now here in Texas.

And they often exist for a long time before cases are actually brought. It took a long time to convict Warren Jeffs. These cases are just very hard to bring, because the witnesses are -- tend to be these young girls, and they're terrified. And they generally don't cooperate.

BROWN: And that's what we have been reading and hearing about, is that the women and then the children that are in custody are not cooperating.

Anyway, Jeff Toobin, appreciate your time tonight. As always, thank you.

And up next: a woman who left Warren Jeffs' sect, and what we know about the suspect, Dale Evans Barlow, who is accused of beating and sexually assaulting a 6-year-old (sic) girl at the FLDS ranch in Texas. Yet, some are now calling it a case of mistaken identity.

We're going to explain that -- when 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BROWN: Digging deeper into the polygamy case -- to shut the Texas compound down and build the strongest case against the polygamist church, prosecutors must turn to the children. The job will not be easy. They have been taught to fear the outside world.

How, then, do you get them to talk?

We are going to ask two people who know. Joining us now is Kathy Jo Nicholson, who was a member of Warren Jeffs' sect, before running away at 18. Also with us, Dr. Bruce Perry, a child psychiatrist who is working with authorities down in Texas. Dr. Perry is also the author of a book, "The Boy Who Was Raised as a Dog: And Other Stories from a Child Psychiatrist's Notebook."

Thanks to both of you for joining us.

Dr. Perry, let me start with you.

DR. BRUCE PERRY, AUTHOR, "THE BOY WHO WAS RAISED AS A DOG": Sure.

BROWN: I know you can't discuss specifics about what's going on, but can you tell us what you found to be the biggest challenge, really, in trying to help these kids?

PERRY: I think the biggest challenge is that these children have grown up in a world where they have been taught that the outside world is to be feared. Their belief system and everything they've been socialized into makes non-believers someone you can't trust. Non- believers are people who may hurt them. Non-believers will disrespect and misunderstand their holy practices and beliefs, like polygamy and marriage at age 13 and so forth.

And the fear that's basically embedded in the way this is taught to these children and young women is so pervasive that it really has a chilling impact on any attempts to try and interview them.

C. BROWN: And I mean, you say -- I guess to say they're from another culture is almost an understatement. I mean, from what we -- what you were just saying to follow up, we've heard people say that they're told outsiders are the devil and that, you know, there are teenagers who have no idea what a crayon even is.

PERRY: Correct. It's -- it's very difficult for people who are from our regular secular world where there's incredible amounts of freedom and exposure to all kinds of things, to realize that these children, in some cases, are multigenerational products of a very insulated world view, where they haven't had any opportunity to see how other people live.

They've never grown up in an -- in a setting where they can have independent choice. And in fact, many of the beliefs they have, have been really hammered into them in a way that has distorted all kinds of ideas about other people and other beliefs.

And I think it's going to be a tremendous challenge for these children to make the transition from that -- that world at the ranch to the more secular world that they will end up in.

C. BROWN: Kathy Jo, there have been reports of kids who are unwilling to give information. And some case workers are getting a sense that the children are being told to be quiet. Were you and other FLDS kids trained in how to respond to questions about your lifestyle?

KATHY JO NICHOLSON, FORMER MEMBER OF POLYGAMIST CULT: Well, just like the doctor said, from the time that these children are infants, they're trained to believe that anyone outside of the community, outside of the cult is an enemy, is an alien. They're -- they're terrified.

I remember feeling that way. The difference that I experienced in trying to relate to what these children are going through is that I left. I ran willingly. And these children have been -- have been taken, thank God. And I'm sure they're terrified, because everything -- they were probably -- they were probably given their last word of wisdom before they left not to speak.

C. BROWN: Right. Dr. Perry, let me go to you again. We're learning tonight of complaints from some FLDS mothers that they've not been allowed to see their children. Is there a reason why the children would be need to be isolated from their parents? And how could that separation affect them?

PERRY: Well, I think that the actions by Child Protective Service to protect these children, under normal circumstances would involve the separation of the children from the parents who were unable to protect them or the parents who hurt them.

And in this case, they've been very, I think, reasonable in allowing these parents to come along for this first phase of this separation.

But I think ultimately, assuming the court proceedings go as the way the state wants them over this next week, ultimately these children are going to have to be separated from these adults. And I think that that's the only way that this incredible cohesiveness of this community and the intimidating factors that are present will ever been loosened enough for these children to feel free enough to speak to the authorities about what has been happening in the compound.

C. BROWN: But can't that separation be traumatic for the child?

PERRY: Well, it will certainly be distressing, and I think that one of the things that the mental health team that's up there and the child protective people who have been up there working with these people, I think, have been very sensitive to that issue. And I think they're deliberating a lot about what is the best way to protect these children and to make that transition as smooth as possible.

But we all know that it's inevitable that there will be distress and anxiety. But we hope that that will be it. We hope that it won't be traumatic. We hope that it will be a transition that can be paired by having people around these children who will be sensitive, supportive, loving, nurturing, things that -- they will be very unfamiliar with from outsiders, because they're just not expecting that to happen.

But I think with time, they will see that people who are not part of the community can also be kind and respectful and honest and decent. And as that is seen and experienced by these children, that separation will be much easier.

C. BROWN: Kathy Jo, what goes through your mind when you think about -- especially with these little kids being separated from the only family they've ever known?

NICHOLSON: I think that the mothers -- I'm a mother, and I have a mother. And I just -- it's unimaginable to me to be separated from my children.

And my mother has left the community. She's been with me now for five years. When her youngest left the community willingly, she followed. And she -- I think that these mothers, if they desire, which I would imagine that they, with all their heart, would desire to be with their children, should be able to be with their children.

And they can be taught, as children together, love and support. And like the doctor said, shown that the outside world is not such a big, scary, negative place.

There is no -- this is going to be many pieces to the puzzle. There's no panacea saying this is the right way to do it. This is the wrong way to do it. It's going to be -- it's going to be a matter of unconditional love by whoever takes these precious ones in, mixed with the right kind of therapy. And these children probably will shut down, maybe for a long, long time.

I think these children and mothers deserve anonymity. I think they deserve to not be part of a circus show. I hope that the people that do take them in will recognize that it's not a project, that these are -- these are living, breathing, wounded individuals that need unconditional love. They've been told all their lives that they have to work for love, and it is conditional.

And I hope that they will seek therapy. But I think they deserve anonymity and I think they deserve a fresh start with their biological mothers, if possible.

C. BROWN: All right. Kathy Jo Nicholson and Dr. Bruce Perry, thanks to both of you. Appreciate your time tonight.

PERRY: Thank you.

NICHOLSON: Thank you.

C. BROWN: Coming up next, the search for the man whose actions allegedly set off the raid of the polygamy compound in Texas.

And the latest on our breaking story, the capture of the fugitive Marine wanted for murder. We've got that and more when 360 continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN BARLOW, FORMER MAYOR OF COLORADO CITY: We believe in Revelation. The fundamentalist belief is that -- that a man has more than one family and that those things are ordained of God, that marriage is ordained of God.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

C. BROWN: That is Dan Barlow, the father of suspect Dale Evans Barlow. Dan Barlow is the former mayor of Colorado City, Arizona, where his son is now believed to be.

There are a lot of Barlows in the FLDS community, leading some tonight to say that Dale Barlow isn't even the right man. But given that there's an arrest warrant in Texas with his name on it, others want to know why is he still free?

We sent 360's Gary Tuchman to Colorado City to find out.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE) GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It's a house surrounded by a fortress-like wall, a security camera on the lookout for unwanted guests. Signs warning not to trespass.

This is the home of polygamy sect member Dale Barlow, the man accused of beating and sexually assaulting a 16-year-old girl at the group's ranch in Texas, even as recently as this past Easter Sunday. But has he ever been to the ranch in Texas?

(on camera) Mr. Barlow? You have a "no trespassing" sign, so we're yelling from here to see if you'll talk to us. I'm Gary Tuchman of CNN. Mr. Barlow?

(voice-over) No answer. Barlow happens to be on probation after pleading no contest to conspiring to have sex with a minor. Probation officers tell us they just saw him in this house Tuesday and add, "Mr. Barlow continues to meet with his probation officer regularly."

To the best of their knowledge, they say, he hasn't left the area for the eight months he's been on probation. But Texas authorities insist he committed these crimes in Texas.

SHERIFF DAVE DORAN, SCHLEIGHTER COUNTY, TEXAS: Let's just say this: if he was on their property he would have been arrested right now.

TUCHMAN: But now that he apparently isn't, why isn't he being arrested in Arizona? The Mojave County, Arizona, sheriff says he would arrest him but has not received a warrant.

(on camera) Probation officials here in Mojave County, Arizona, say Dale Barlow lives in this house with at least three women and at least 17 children. They say as far as they know, he has never violated any rules of his probation agreement, which include asking for permission to leave the state. They say he's never asked for such permission.

(voice-over) Richard Holm was a member of the polygamist sect for 51 years before being kicked out. He thinks it unlikely that Barlow has regularly visited the Texas ranch.

RICHARD HOLM, FORMER WARREN JEFFS FOLLOWER: To go and come from there, it's been portrayed as such a holy land that people don't just go and come at random.

TUCHMAN: Outside Barlow's Arizona home, we run into a neighbor on horseback.

(on camera) Do you know Dale Barlow, who lives here?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He don't live there.

TUCHMAN: He doesn't live -- no, here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right here.

TUCHMAN: Do you know Dale Barlow?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

TUCHMAN: What kind of guy is he?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't know.

TUCHMAN: Good guy?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is a good guy. Pretty good, I these.

TUCHMAN: Do you know that the authorities in the state of Texas want him for a crime? Have you heard about that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I have.

TUCHMAN: Yes. What do you think about that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If he did it, they'd better catch him.

TUCHMAN (voice-over): Texas authorities have not made clear why they haven't asked Arizona officials to catch him. But Dale Barlow is still suspect No. 1.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

C. BROWN: And Gary joining us now.

Gary, what's going on here? What is the theory as to why Texas is not asking Arizona for Dale Barlow's arrest?

TUCHMAN: Well, Campbell, here's what investigative sources are telling us in Arizona. They thought (ph) these allegations and these horrifying things are true at the compound in Texas. They have zero evidence that this man, Dale Barlow, has been in Texas over the last eight months.

They believe what might have happened -- I emphasize might have been happened, is there are so many Barlows inside this -- hundreds of people named Barlow, they think it's possible the folks in Texas got this confused and perhaps it's a different Barlow.

A case in point, Campbell. Tonight, as just so happened, our satellite truck got stuck in the mud. That happens sometimes. We had to call a towing service, a member of the sect, to come help tow the truck out. And the man who came out, a friendly guy, his last name was Barlow.

C. BROWN: Just bizarre. Gary Tuchman for us tonight. Gary, thanks.
 
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Originally broadcast April 10, 2008
 
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